Trial, Week 8: Summary - September 13


WEEK 8: SEPTEMBER 9 - 13, 1996

   * Day 34: Monday, September 9             * Day 37: Thursday, September 12
   * Day 35: Tuesday, September 10           * Day 38: Friday, September 13 
   * Day 36: Wednesday, September 11


Edited by Roz Royce and Trond Halle, from notes by Trond Halle (Defendant)

Posted by FreeMedia


Abbreviations used in notes:

DC = Don Campbell (Defense)
SF = Shelagh Franklin (Defense)
GW = George Wool (Defense)
ST = Sheldon Tate (Defense)
MA = Manuel Azevedo (Defense)
HR = Harry Rankin (Defense)

LB = Lance Bernard (Crown)
JF = Jennifer Fawcus (Crown)

J = Judge

Only 10 of 18 accused here today. Only four people in the public gallery. It must be Friday.

Without jury.

J - rules on Wolverine's bail. Denied.

Wolverine would like interpreter to read statement. Interpreter (John) reads that aboriginal rights can only be relinquished to Canada or United States. Refers to Mohegan case of 1704. Also refers to Constitution Act of 1867. Wolverine then speaks on his own behalf and reminds the J that these are things that you speak of - the Rule of Law. This is what we also stand on. I've also heard the Prosecutor speak of Rule of Law. These are the laws that we relied on up there. We had no part in writing these laws. But it's what we stand on. International law, Constitutional law and Natural law. We stood on these to protect the land. These are some of the things that haven't been done: purchase of the land or treaty. If these things haven't been done, then we believe we native people still have a right to be on this land. I don't believe Provincial law supersedes Constitutional law. We won't get justice here if Constitutional law is pushed aside. Maybe we will only get justice from the Queen. This interpreter here should be recognized as a lawyer and these things should be recorded. Then someone else can read of this even when you're not here. If I go down, maybe ten people will surface and take my place with the same legal argument. And maybe one day the Queen will come and rule on this. We are allies with the Queen - not subjects. You are subjects.

GW - says JoJo was arrested in the morning for break and enter in Chilliwack and will be brought here later in the afternoon.

Jury in.

LB - Next witness (#37): Sgt. Kenneth Charles Gates (KG) - (this guy also kissed the bible) - Has been in Vancouver HQ since 1985. ERT troop co-ordinator for RCMP in B.C. Duties are to liaison with team leaders, identifying equipment needs, identifies members of RCMP for centralized training. Working at Vancouver HQ in Aug.-Sept. '95. Attended to Kamloops on Aug. 28 re: Gustafsen Lake investigation. Directed by Chief Supt. Johnson to report to Insp. Moulton regarding assistance to ERT teams. Role at 100 Mile House was to acquire supplies, lodging and other details.

Aug. 29, went to 100 Mile House and looked for suitable Command Post for ERT and laid out command structure. Says that 100 Mile House Detachment was inadequate to handle number of persons required. They secured a warehouse behind the Detachment. It took several days as trailers were also brought in to house personnel. Command Post consisted of working offices, room for briefings, communications centre - it was a general working office. This was not for ERT. ERT office was set up closer to Gustafsen Lake and was known as Forward Command Post or "Zulu". The one in town was called 100 Mile House Command Post. This was working office for everyone - negotiators, general duty, finances, housing, etc. Zulu concerned with actual day to day operations. He worked at Zulu and handled creating shifts and organizing equipment. Examples include ensuring that different shifts had adequate rest. Equipment he dealt with ranged from pencils to weapons and ammunition. Teams reported to Zulu for day to day operations. He understood ERT role was to maintain containment around Gustafsen Lake area. They would keep people from getting in and arrest those coming out. Containment was done by setting up roadblocks.

Team locations changed over time and eventually moved closer to Gustafsen Lake. Says this was the plan to move in and close the area. He was aware that negotiations were going on at the same time and says this is standard while ERT contained site. He wasn't involved in negotiations.

Some operational plans were brought to him for review, but they had to go to other superiors above for approval. Example of plans included what to do if persons came out and how to arrest them. Others included how to retrieve the abandoned Suburban. These types of plans would have to be approved by team leaders. His input into plans would regard who would be used in teams. Says operational commander gave final approval. They included Inspectors Moulton, Kembel and Edwards. They worked out of Zulu. On Aug. 30, he worked on a plan regarding a surrender plan as that hadn't been developed yet. This coincided with visits to the camp with Mr. Clark, an attorney for the camp. Clark went into the camp, but no surrender resulted. He attended and gave briefings to some ERT teams. These briefings were for new teams coming in to bring them up to speed. These briefings would occur one shift to another. He remembers instructions were to observe, contain and arrest anyone that left the encampment.

From Sept. 2 to 22, he worked in 100 Mile House Command Post, starting early and ending late. On Sept. 22nd, he left and returned to Vancouver.

On Sept. 7, he was in a helicopter going from 100 Mile House to Zulu with pilot McCullagh in mid-morning. He was assigned by Deputy Commissioner Farrell and Assistant Deputy Commissioner Brown. They both flew with him that morning too. They were retired, but worked in the same building. Only person higher in rank is Commissioner Murray in Ottawa. Says these people were not going by names of Riemer or Camphouse. They were not posing as members of U.S. military or Deputies or media. They wanted to see Zulu and have a view of the area.

After they dropped off commissioner guys at Zulu, there was a request to do a FLIR mission. Went to 100 Mile House, picked up FLIR operator Pitts and went to 1029 marker to scan area with FLIR. On Ex. 5, he identifies "A" point as original media checkpoint. "B" was Zulu. "D" was where they flew to. Says that they were flying sweeps on "Monkey" road. As they flew, KG noticed red truck on road and then heard "reports". Pilot banked helicopter and dropped altitude. Says "reports" are gunshots. Four shots, equally spaced, came from ground. During shots, he was looking out left side of aircraft looking at ground. Didn't see anyone through dense foliage. Truck was stationary, but he couldn't see anyone around.

J notes that DC is missing and ST says he is at the doctor's. ST will represent him.

LB cont'd with Sgt. Gates - KG wore helmet, but still heard gunfire clearly. He wore blue jeans and nylon jacket and bulletproof vest. Says calibre of shots wasn't small. After hearing sounds, pilot banked right and dove towards ground until they cleared area. Then gained altitude and maintained observation of pick-up. Truck eventually began moving and went along "Monkey". With reference to Ex. 5 map, says that truck was on side logging road. It returned on "Monkey" and went to camp. Only saw red on truck. Had an open box that was also red.

Couldn't see anything in back of truck nor how many people were in truck. Never saw anyone go in or come out of truck. Says it was a half-ton truck. No idea of make, model or year. Observed it going back to camp.

They flew back to 100 Mile House and then picked up Commissioner guys and continued with task of showing them area. They didn't fly above camp, but circled the lake. Farrell and Brown went back to Command Post in 100 Mile House afterwards. Didn't see them again later that day. He witnessed no other events regarding Gustafsen Lake.

On Sept. 11, he was at Command Post at 100 Mile House. Remembers that during that day, persons were doing normal functions and they listened to communications coming from the Gustafsen Lake area. Following Sept. 17, once camp was clear, he went there and decided which ERT would stay to maintain the site. MA - Looks at one page statement. KG says he made this day after helicopter incident, but statement incorrectly says that incident took place on Sept. 8. Gave statement July '96. MA says that this week, Crown gave Defense 120 pages of notes. KG says he gave these to Crown two days ago. Agrees that blackened pages refers to American military satellite operations. MA says Defense will not cross-examine until these notes are made available and until they have a chance to review notes. LB asks jury to leave.

LB - says that regarding timing, this shouldn't be a problem. Says yesterday Gates was made available to Defense to sit with witness and go over illegible notes. This morning MA sat with Gates. Objects that these issues in front of the jury are not proper and misleads the jury. This is an improper examination and he will object in the future when the issue of late or incomplete disclosures are raised in front of the jury. HR - says that regarding misleading the jury, we had a pilot that said he didn't know who these two men were. Pilot never said that he took the two for a second trip.

MA - says there is no problem photocopying these notes. We don't need a laser copier. Takes umbrage to LB saying cross-examination is improper. If anyone is trying to mislead the jury, it's the Crown that has said KG was only involved with the one incident and yet has 120 pages of notes.

J is reluctant to loose whole day. MA says they will be ready by 1:30.

Wolverine wonders if there's any way to put the paper he read from in as part of the legal argument for the Defense because this has to be heard. J asks him to take this up with his counsel. Wolverine: "No. I'd like you to answer." J: "1:30 please" and he gets up and leaves. Wolverine: "This is nothing but a coverup."

L/ Without jury. MA - Isn't ready to proceed. Now has three sets of Gates' notes. Some pages don't match. Isn't ready. J wonders if any Defense will cross- examine today. HR - "I'll take a start at it." Jury in.

HR - asks who is senior to KG. KG says he reports to Insp. Spivack at present time. Says Spivack reports to many people above him. KG says he's a co-ordinator and facilitator and says that teams act independently. He is a team co-ordinator and says he isn't in charge of day to day operations. HR wonders if there is a chart of organization and KG confirms there is. Says he last looked at it several months ago. Confirms that he is still on this chart.

Re: "Will Say" of him in helicopter on Sept. 7 where he flew to 29 km to assist in infrared scanning of area. Pitts and McCullagh with him. Says he took two passengers prior to FLIR trip. Says it isn't in his willsay because he didn't prepare it. HR notes that willsay has his name on it, but KG says he has no idea who prepared his willsay. Never asked Crown about it. LB - Stands and says that summaries of incidents are not prepared by witnesses and this is why he can't recall.

HR - KG can't recall if he introduced two passengers to pilot that day. HR wonders if that's going to be his answer all day. KG says he can't remember what happened that day. Agrees that he only took a few trips and never took two passengers before, but still maintains that he can't recall. About a half-hour after incident of red truck, he picked up two passengers again. Again, he can't recall if he introduced men to pilot. Says he showed two officers the area.

Re: document dated Sept 12. KG agrees he prepared this. Agrees he noted that he organized shift changes, read operational plans before handing them on for approval. Adds he also organized equipment and says he was essentially a quartermaster for about 80% of the time.

HR wonders who two Americans are that are referred to in his notes. KG looks through his notes. HR helps him find note page by saying that the heading says "CO won't approve long range plan." KG still looking. He finds it. HR says that on his copy, there appears to be erasures. Two Americans referred to as being picked up at the Peace Arch. KG mutters something about intelligence officers, but doesn't know where at the Peace Arch they were picked up. Says he has no idea about what this is about. HR wonders why it is in his book and suspects that he does more than just order equipment. KG: "My lord, I have no idea." HR wonders if he has any idea why these two people would be picked up at the Peace Arch. LB objects that HR is asking witness to speculate. HR says no. KG admits that he has never picked up American intelligence people before to bring into Canada nor has he ever flown American intelligence people in a helicopter before either. Agrees that notes are in pencil though he usually makes them in pen. Says the reasons he used pencil for these notes is that pencil was handy.

Re: note that "CO approves Clark coming in, native pro- active movement." KG says he never met Clark and had no participation in bringing Clark in. Says CO was Supt. Olfert. Confirms that Clark did go in. There is a reference to a briefing at this note. Admits that he knew that Clark was important to the accused people here. Doesn't know that Clark probably represented most of the people. He has no recollection of what was said at this meeting other than what he noted. Says that there were many things going on and his role was organization. HR suggests that he was brought in for his experience. "Special O Check in" regarded whether the Special O plane was available for surveillance. Says Special O specialize in surveillance. Another note refers to a plan that was to be developed to insert a team on the south side of the lake to set up a camera. He has no knowledge of a gun that was set up to fire a 1000 yards to fire at a person. Bob Wood reference - KG doesn't know who that is.

Re: Aug. 30 note - doesn't know who "Gregoir" is. HR goes down line. There is a note that Bruce Clark is upset about a media article. Then a note that Gregoir is allowed to speak to Percy. Note that Wolverine is key, Percy is secondary, Clark visit was to proceed.

Admits that 157 pages represents a lot of information and number of meetings to get the information and a lot of time. HR notes that none of these notes refers to getting supplies. KG says he'd have to look at other notes. Agrees that he started day at 5:00 a.m. and ended at midnight some days. Agrees he was awake a long time and got little sleep. Says he's used to it and will continue to do so. When HR says he must be 45 or 48, he says not quite that old. HR: "I guess it's those long days that have aged you." KG smiles and says he's more fortyish.

Agrees that he regarded Clark as a leader in this incident along with Wolverine and Rosette. Agrees this was gathered from a lot of intelligence. Doesn't know when this evaluation of leaders is made or who was there to make that decision.

Note of "video business" refers to installing video cameras on Bisons. Gates can't recall if tanks were involved. Doesn't believe so. Notes from Aug. 31, "request for Clark to go in. Call Pitintry and brief Wescam to pick up Pitintry." Says that he is RCMP member that rides in surveillance camera. Re: "25 people bothered by helicopter" refers to people in the camp being bothered by a helicopter.

Agrees he attended daily meetings, but says he didn't meticulously record notes. Notice of Clark and smudge. Understands that smudge is a native ceremony. Says he recorded material at meetings that he thought was relevant to him. Reference to names and phone numbers. Says that numbers are blacked out because that isn't public knowledge including some command numbers, Wilby's.

"Lee Ferris - CSIS con." Agrees that it is his writing and reason it is different because paper might have been on a different angle. Says Ferris isn't CSIS - he's RCMP. Says CSIS is Canadian Intelligence. Reason names are together is because Ferris had communications with CSIS. Ferris is a Cpl. from Kamloops SubDivision. HR: "CSIS is the `Big Brother' of Canada and are in charge of all the spies." KG: "That's what they're supposed to do." HR: "Well I don't know very much about it." KG: "Either do I. I don't think anyone does." Reference to Ferris and photos. He wanted some photos.

Mousetraps for RVs - "we had a mouse problem in the RVs." Note for "ambush sites" - says these were to stop and arrest people. HR suggests that this is where they set up land mines. KG: "No sir. We did not use land mines."

Special O for Edmonton note is referred to because Vancouver Special O didn't have a plane available. Laser notes refers to rangefinder. Says he has fired 900 metres, but never hit anything. Clarifies that laser may give you a reading of 1000 metres, but that doesn't mean a weapon could hit accurately at that distance. Says he worked with several people in Ottawa that could make a hit at 900 metres without the use of a laser rangefinder.

Note of 80 sleeping bags was for men to sleep outdoors. Note of call from Insp. Kembel briefing of situation. AB/ HR cont'd with Sgt. Gates - Grant Wyton refers to team leader from Courtney ERT requesting an APC from KG. Ops. Plan Friday is for an Operational Plan to be drafted by Friday by a team leader, but he can't recall who. He's not sure which plan this refers to, so isn't sure if he reviewed it.

Reference to Dave Holms is Staff Sgt. Says Holms was liaison between Vancouver HQ and Ottawa. Palmer was Deputy Commissioner in Ottawa. Note is of KG briefing someone there. HR: "So again your answer is you don't know. You don't remember much do you?" KG: "If I remember, I'll tell you." HR suggests that KG has a tremendous difficulty remembering highlights that he has noted.

Reference to Prince George refers to getting that team out to give them a rest break.

Reference to snipers at water hole refers to a team of RCMP snipers at water hole at east end of Gustafsen Lake.

Reference to Kembel authorizing something refers to him authorizing ERT teams to move from one place to another.

Reference to briefing by Mike Webster - he was a psychologist that gave his opinion. Recalls him saying that there has to be a negotiations process that has to work in conjunction with containment. Says this is the usual ERT method. KG doesn't know about Webster going to Waco and says he's Canadian. Says briefing probably wasn't longer than two hours.

Note of "Low key - want to go in - legal position charges" - this is from a briefing given by negotiators. Says this refers to people at lake and any charges that might be involved. Agrees that up to this point, he was aware of no charges. Doesn't recall the charges discussed.

Another note of red vehicle being target of opportunity and to take it out if it can be done safely. "Red loaded with water." Says that if the opportunity arose, at time they didn't have a plan on how to stop it and arrest the people inside.

Note of copy of "fire" around date of Sept. 12. Says it dealt with a zone of no-fire. Says that there was a proposal made with negotiators that was sent in to camp.

Reference to a body regarded a report from a surveillance aircraft of a body in a foxhole or dugout that was later reported missing. Says this was a hole near the camp and they were concerned that someone might need medical attention. Says this was south and east of the camp. He points to large aerial map where there is a point that juts out into the lake. Reference to "frags" - he can only think it might be a reference to fragmentation grenades. Nigel note refers to armourer (weapons maintenance) who had back problems and had to be rotated elsewhere. Reference to Rocky tape off incident refers to having Clelland tape off area where he reported being shot at.

ST - KG confirms job is supervisor for all ERT teams in B.C. If someone had a request, he would try to meet personnel and equipment needs of ERT. He wouldn't debrief persons generally as an investigator though sometimes he would ask people what happened. Command group made up of ? and KG would act as liaison between them and those in field near beginning. Later that was done by Ops Commanders.

Sept. 8 or 9, KG was involved in briefing where Supt. Hall's letter came in laying out safe areas for camp. Not sure if Kembel was there for that meeting because he may have been at Zulu at time. He believes some minutes were taken at these meetings, but isn't sure. Agrees that the rough boundary of the safe zone corresponded to the fence lines around the camp area.

It was intended that these maps would get to team leaders. Doesn't think anyone was specifically assigned to get these maps out. He agrees that these would be very important if these were accepted by the camp, but doesn't believe they were accepted. Agrees he really doesn't know what Hall's letter was about other than that it was a proposal. He agrees that if there is something important to get to team leaders, he expects that this should have occurred.

Says that 100 Mile House Command Post didn't have a direct downlink from Wescam, but Zulu did. Agrees that Insp. Kembel was in charge at Zulu at this time.

KG agrees that in his notes, he has no references to times. He doesn't have times for Sept. 7, but does for Sept. 11. (OJ and Wolverine are sleeping now during this titillating testimony.) Is aware of a shot being made on a person in the No Shoot Zone on Sept. 12. Sees reference to No Shoot Zone near note of "body gone." ST wonders why he was writing down events of Sept. 12 in sequential order as opposed to day before during big battle. KG suggests that he may have been listening to monitor. The next day he spoke to O'Gorman and Wyton. KG says the meeting related to two other members of team that had to leave. ST wonders why he spoke to these two. ST wonders why the only notes he made of an incident were followed by a meeting by the two persons that pulled the trigger. KG maintains meeting was only to arrange air transport. Says investigation of incident was being done by others. Clarifies that he may have spoken to two about shooting incident, but can't recall. ST tells J that he won't finish cross-examination today. Is the J sleeping? His eyes have been closed for two minutes. He very slowly opens them. J: "Okay, ten o'clock Monday."

   * Day 34: Monday, September 9             * Day 37: Thursday, September 12
   * Day 35: Tuesday, September 10           * Day 38: Friday, September 13 
   * Day 36: Wednesday, September 11