Trial, Week 18: Summary - November 27


WEEK 18: NOVEMBER 25 - 29, 1996

  * Day 81: Monday, November 25      * Day 84: Thursday, November 28-no report
  * Day 82: Tuesday, November 26     * Day 85: Friday, November 29
  * Day 83: Wednesday, November 27


Edited by Roz Royce and Trond Halle, from notes by Trond Halle (Defendant)

Posted by Settlers In Support of Indigenous Sovereignty


Abbreviations used in notes:

DC = Don Campbell (Defense)
SF = Shelagh Franklin (Defense)
GW = George Wool (Defense)
ST = Sheldon Tate (Defense)
MA = Manuel Azevedo (Defense)
HR = Harry Rankin (Defense)

LB = Lance Bernard (Crown)
JF = Jennifer Fawcus (Crown)

J = Judge

Without jury.

JF - says that Brown does have notes, but says that they aren't relevant. Farrell hasn't been contacted yet. There is an affidavit for Brown available now regarding his involvement.

JF says that they have about half of the RCMP training videotapes available now, totalling about 16 tapes. JF says that LB thought that the Defense may need some time to review the tapes.

JF says that regarding the Aug. 25th weapons seizure, ST has told her that he wants a voirdire regarding some of the evidence the Crown wants to lead.

ST - clarifies that in the earlier voirdire, the only evidence that was decided on was the weapons that were seized. He didn't know that the Crown wanted to lead some of the statements made at the roadblock. JF asks for a few minutes to discuss this with LB. J stands down the court.

The court is back.

JF - says it was her error and they are not going to lead the statements made.

ST - invites the Crown to only use one of the four officers to describe the events and that the Crown lead the witness past the statements made by the people in the car. ST will admit Ron's identity. DC will admit the identity of the Dick brothers and GW will admit the identity of Shadow.

Jury in.

J says that Sgt. Ryan isn't available today and may return Friday.

JF - Next witness (#69): Cst. Kathryn Baumber (KB) - In RCMP since '91 and stationed in 100 Mile House since then. KB was called to attend the investigation on Aug. 24. She says her job was to man a checkpoint at the intersection of 1000 Road and 1100 Road. She was told to check identities and to search vehicles for weapons. She was told to seize all weapons, but not to deny any access to the area. She arrived at 12:30 a.m. on the 25th with Cst. Horton. She met Thompson and Martin from Ashcroft Detachment. Their roles were the same as hers and Horton's.

KB says that the traffic was minimal that night, totalling about five vehicles. At about 5:25 a.m., a vehicle approached. The police stepped out and the vehicle stopped. It was a white Honda Accord. She gives the license plate. Thompson and Martin's vehicle was pointed eastbound and her and Horton's vehicles were facing westbound.

There were five occupants in the car. The driver identified himself as Brent Potulicki. GW admits his identity. J explains to the jury that GW has admitted that the person identified by KB as Shadow is the same accused named Shadow. The front passenger beside Shadow was Stuart Dick (admitted), behind him was Ron Dionne (admitted), in the middle was Mindy Dick and next to her was Teddy Dick (admitted). KB says that Mindy was 15-years-old and a native.

They searched the interior of the vehicle and then the trunk. All four officers searched the trunk. On top was a black bag carrying a compound bow. They found clothes and a shotgun. They also found some shotgun shells, as well as a box of rifle ammo and some rifle clips.

The clothes were returned to the car and the weapons and ammo were seized and sent to the temporary lock-up locker in 100 Mile House. KB and Horton marked the exhibits.

KB is shown a shotgun and KB identifies it as the one she seized. A canvas bag is shown to her with shotgun shells inside. She seized this. She is shown a bag carrying two rifle clips and she recognizes Horton's initials on the bag. Finally, she is shown an ammo box, which she identifies as the one she seized.

KB says that later on in her shift, she observed another car come through at 7:30 a.m. It was a red pickup truck with a canopy on it. This truck was proceeding towards 100 Mile House. The occupants identified themselves as Robert Flemming and Shari Bondy. ST admits Rob's identity. This truck was permitted to pass.

ST - KB agrees that she was told to stop all vehicles, and when she pulled over the Honda it was because she was just following orders. KB agrees that the shotgun was no concern to her, as she says that these types of weapons are found in that area all the time. The same with the bow. The people were very co-operative.

GW - Regarding Shadow, he was very co-operative. She's not sure if Sarich was her immediate supervisor that day. KB believes this was the first day of the roadblock going up. She had heard that JoJo is alleged to have shot at Cst. Wilby on Aug. 18th. She has no explanation for why a roadblock wasn't set up on Aug. 19th.

KB has been in 100 Mile House for about five years. KB agrees that there is a sawmill near 100 Mile House and a roadblock could have been set up there. KB says there are a number of routes to get to Gustafsen Lake, but the main route is past the sawmill. She agrees that there are a number of routes to get in to Gustafsen Lake if someone wanted to smuggle weapons in.

GW asks KB that if the road had been blocked down near Clinton, would this have blocked all main routes to Gustafsen Lake. She doesn't really know. She reiterates that there are a number of ways to get into this area.

DC - KB agrees that her only instructions were to seize weapons and not detain anyone. She says that none of the Dick brothers gave any indication that they were in control of any of the items seized.

MA - KB says that Shadow said that the shotgun belonged to a friend of his, but wouldn't say who. No one claimed ownership of the ammo.

SF - KB agrees that she was one of the officers who seized SF's clothing. KB recalls telling SF she wanted to seize her clothing, but doesn't recall laughing when SF said no. KB doesn't recall saying that one way or another, they would get her clothing.

KB doesn't recall a male officer coming into SF's cell and saying that they will get her clothing either the easy way or the hard way. KB recalls something about SF asking to talk to her lawyer. KB recalls a phone being brought to her. KB doesn't know if anyone was listening to her call and didn't know a male officer told her, "hey, you weren't talking to a lawyer, you called your girlfriend." SF says that she couldn't get a hold of Bruce Clark and spoke to Clark's wife.

KB agrees that she and another officer had to remove SF's clothing and began to forcefully remove them. KB doesn't recall asking SF if she thought this was fun. SF asks why the clothing was seized. KB says for evidence. SF asks KB if she knows that to remove clothing 24 hours after arrest to check for gunpowder is a waste of time. KB says she isn't a forensics expert.

KB says that regarding the roadblock, she doesn't know on what authority she made the weapons search. J says that SF can ask who told KB to search the car, but KB can't answer what legal authority she had. KB didn't know that the Constitution tells her that she is to protect natives from being molested or disturbed. She agrees that she is sworn to uphold the law.

MB/ Jury is told that there are no more witnesses and that they are dismissed for the day. Jury leaves.

JF - says that she expects that half of the videotapes will be available today, but there is only one copy now. The RCMP don't want to produce any tapes that aren't copy protected. She seeks an order requiring that any counsel taking the tapes must sign an undertaking ensuring that the tapes remain in their possession.

ST - says that this undertaking makes it nearly impossible to view these tapes with the accused. If counsel has to share one set of tapes, he can't be expected to control videos that other counsel may have.

JF says that LB suggests that the jury be released for a week until next Monday. GW says that he doesn't need that long to prepare.

J says that a jury member has a doctor's appointment tomorrow. GW says that he isn't going to be here tomorrow either. J says that the jury can be sent home now and will be told on the phone when they will be needed, as soon as counsel knows.

W - wants to ensure that Glen Kealey is involved in the viewing process. DC tells the J that both Defense and Crown have already agreed that Kealey would be involved in the viewing process.

The court stands down while counsel decide on what to do with the videos.

The court is back in session.

ST - says that he and counsel have come to a decision. Regarding the undertaking, there are a number of problems with it. He says that trying to get 18 accused and counsel to see these tapes will be a nightmare. ST suggests that the only central focal place with a VCR and access to the counsel is here in this courtroom. He suggests that a voirdire be declared.

ST says that if the J were to view all of the tapes with counsel and accused, then when the contentious portions come up, the J can view these privately and give an immediate ruling. J doesn't want to spend 48 hours of the court's time viewing evidence that isn't in contention.

W - says that he believes that this is a stalling technique by the Crown. He doesn't see what could be such a secret about some RCMP training tapes. Maybe there is something here the police don't want the public to see.

ST - says that playing these tapes in the courtroom would be the only practical way for W to view these.

J doesn't argue with this and agrees that the courtroom would be the best place to do this.

JF - suggests that a video be viewed here by the unrepresented accused and that the Defense counsel get another copy that they can view.

ST - says that he wouldn't have a concern if he had his own copy. He says that the only problem really is item one of the undertaking. J stands down while the counsel discuss ways of altering the undertaking.

Court back.

JF - says that LB will rewrite the undertaking and that a number of videos will be made. She says that it costs $10 a tape to copy protect the tapes and there are 40 tapes and hopes that Defense will share in the costs.

MA - says that if Defense doesn't want to sign any undertaking and if the Crown wants to control the tapes, then they should be played here in controlled conditions. J says that he likes this idea and says that he will be available if needed if any issues arise.

W says that he would like to see the contentious hour and a half of tape. J says that the Defense counsel has asked that all the tapes be played in the court, which W can watch, but says that he still has to decide on the hour and a half.

MA - says that the jury should be told, if they are not needed next week, why they aren't needed. Specifically, that these disclosures should have been made available before the trial began.

DC - says that the tapes may be fast forwarded and that it may not take 40 hours to watch. He suggests that the jury be told that they may be called in early next week should the Defense be ready sooner than expected.

JF - asks under what conditions the tapes will be shown. J says that it will be a closed court and that the public will not be allowed to watch.

L/ JF - says that regarding the tapes, the Crown is making the argument that there is no relevance to the hour and a half that the RCMP doesn't want to be shown. J says that the Defense can't argue relevance if they don't know what's on the tape.

DC - says he has a problem with the Crown dictating relevance for the Defense. He says that privilege is the only thing that the Crown can put forward.

ST - suggests that the J deal with privilege first, then relevance. J agrees with that and says he has trouble with ruling on relevance without the Defense seeing the tape.

JF - suggests that the J view the tapes privately to rule on privilege.

JF suggests that the viewing of the tapes not be an official day of court for the accused and that they be given a date when they can return. JF suggests they be excused until next Friday. J has difficulty with this because tomorrow there is a hearing in which the accused should be here.

MA - is not sure what the hearing is about. He asks what the Crown's position is on people watching the video. JF says that the video will be played here just to use the facilities and seeks to have the court closed.

ST - says that there may be some difficulties with an in camera voirdire and suggests that this is still an in-court procedure. J says that he doesn't accept that and maintains the room will simply be used as a viewing room and will still close it to the public, with the exception of Glen Kealey.

JF - adds that they have learned that Farrell's position is the same as Brown's, in that he has notes, but says that Olfert had overall authority in the operation and if his notes are required, then they will have to be vetted. J asks if this can be dealt with on Friday at 9:30, instead of tomorrow. Counsel agree.

J stands down until Friday at 9:30.

Videos are prepared for this in camera session. A sheriff tells Trond that an "in camera" session means that it's private and that the public is excluded.

For the rest of the day accused and counsel watch videos. These will not be summarized at this time.

Thursday will also be spent watching videos all day, which will similarly not be summarized at this time.

  * Day 81: Monday, November 25      * Day 84: Thursday, November 28-no report
  * Day 82: Tuesday, November 26     * Day 85: Friday, November 29
  * Day 83: Wednesday, November 27