Trial, Week 15: Summary - November 6


WEEK 15: NOVEMBER 4 - 8, 1996

   * Day 68: Monday, November 4         * Day 71: Thursday, November 7
   * Day 69: Tuesday, November 5        * Day 72: Friday, November 8
   * Day 70: Wednesday, November 6


Edited by Roz Royce and Trond Halle, from notes by Trond Halle (Defendant)

Posted by Settlers In Support of Indigenous Sovereignty


Abbreviations used in notes:

DC = Don Campbell (Defense)
SF = Shelagh Franklin (Defense)
GW = George Wool (Defense)
ST = Sheldon Tate (Defense)
MA = Manuel Azevedo (Defense)
HR = Harry Rankin (Defense)

LB = Lance Bernard (Crown)
JF = Jennifer Fawcus (Crown)

J = Judge

After an hour of court and three pages of writing, Trond's computer lost all he had written. Don't ask how. The following part is from memory.

J asks counsel to put their heads together to come up with an estimated date for the end of the trial, since some of the jury members' employers are beginning to wonder when they can have their workers back.

GW gets an exemption for Shadow not being here yesterday and MA does the same for Glen.

Jury in. William Thomas (WT) back on witness stand.

GW - The video we were watching yesterday is continued. GW stops the video a number of times on various native and non-native people inside the camp. WT cannot identify any of them and agrees that they are not in the courtroom. There is a shot of media people on one side of the fence and WT agrees that there were as many as 40 people total in the camp area when Mercredi came in on the 25th.

WT doesn't recall Clem Chappel coming in with Sarich when he came to the fence on the 24th, but does recall seeing a cameraman in his footage of the incident. He says that he heard hollering coming from the woods which was directed at the police. He doesn't know who was doing the hollering, but agrees that the person was using four letter words. WT says that Sarich ostensibly came in an open manner, but felt that he was antagonizing the situation because the people in the camp had asked for the police to stay away - to not get in their face. WT felt that Sarich was exacerbating the situation.

There is a shot of a poster that a woman is holding up. It is titled, "Wanted Posse - To restore LAW & ORDER in the Cariboo!" WT explains that there were a number of these posters hanging around 100 Mile House requesting a posse to go in and get rid of the people in the camp. WT says that it was directed at the "quote Indians". WT says that when he was in 100 Mile House, he also saw a demonstration made up of people of all ages. He says it was opposing the occupation of the grounds at the lake. He says that is wasn't a disorganized demonstration and that it was made up predominantly of white people.

DC - With reference to the posse poster in the video, WT recalls that the first qualification for the posse was a good shot. WT agrees that the people in the camp were very open and friendly. Their discussions were more legal in nature than political and were quite knowledgable in legal precedents. WT agrees that the camp had a lawyer and discussed these things with everyone.

Crash! The disclosure binders have just busted the book end on MA's table and the binders push the glass water pitcher off the table. It crashes to the floor breaking and sending water everywhere.

MA - WT says that the first time he saw weapons in the camp was when the helicopter flew over. He said that he felt it was the prelude to an attack because of the time of day and the speed of its approach. He agrees that he saw some people in the camp with weapons and some people without and that people were coming and going all the time. WT says that he felt the camp believed that they were under attack that morning.

This ends the section that was lost and exhausts my memory of what was said. The remainder is okay and is written in real time.

LB - Next witness (#63): Nigel Hemingway (NH) - NH is a B.C. land surveyor. He received his qualification on July 22, 1996. He is still qualified as an expert. The Defense acknowledges NH as an expert witness.

On Aug. 9th, 1996, he did a land survey of Lot 114 on request of the Crown. He completed this on Aug. ?. NH says that the first thing he did was order in copies of the original field notes of the previous land survey from Victoria. This original survey was done 1887. He says that the field notes are those taken during the original survey. They use these to find the original boundaries. He knew where the southeast corner was because it had been located during a survey done the year before and was marked by a pipe post.

Once he found this corner, he went up the east boundary to reach the northeast corner. He uses a machine called a theodolite. He also used a compass and calculations. The Land Survey Act is quite clear about the parameters to use. At the northeast corner, they found remnants of the old marker. They put a new one there. They continued to the northwest corner and then down to the southwest corner area. The original SW marker had disappeared under water because the lake had risen. He re-established a new SW corner.

NH says that he also worked in his office to create a posting plan. By the 26th of Aug., he had enough information to create a posting plan. He submitted it to the Land Title office in Lillooet at the end of August and it was accepted for deposit on Sept. 5. He says that this document is now a recognized document. It is filed under "miscellaneous notes" and attached to the original posting plan, which is not altered.

The sketch that he has prepared for this trial is not a legal document, but shows the corners and also topographic features. Topographic features are not placed on the posting plan because it is not allowed.

LB shows NH the posting plan and NH identifies it as the one he created. LB has NH go over a map to repeat how he established the boundaries of Lot 114. NH says he also took photographs of the corner posts. Ex. 228 is shown to him and he agrees that these are the photos he took during the five days he was doing the survey. NH says that he found a typo on photos #27-33 which should say northwest instead of northeast. This is noted for the record.

He goes over the photos. These are of debris of old survey markers. He says that the encampment was on the other side of the fence and road seen in the photos. More photos of old evidence of posts in relation to existing fencelines. NH says that the fence cuts through a corner of the boundary. He also found an old "bearing tree" that had fallen down. His posting plan is cross-referenced with the photos. More photos of trees, posts and fencelines. Very dry stuff.

MB/ LB cont'd with Nigel Hemingway - More dry stuff with NH. Trond doesn't have a map or copies of the photographs, so is somewhat lost in the survey talk. It's sufficient to say that NH is legitimizing the land survey done on Lot 114, utilizing his photographs, post plan, sketches and field notes.

Looking at the small aerial photo, NH recognizes it as Gustafsen Lake. NH says that the eastern diagonal fenceline is 9.9 metres within the eastern boundary of Lot 114. He says that the southeast corner is in a clump of trees just north of the lake. He says that all the structures in the camp are within Lot 114. He says that the Sundance circle is south of the two creeks in his sketch and west of the wire fence. He says that the northeast and northwest corners are just off the aerial photo. The southwest corner is in a bay at the corner of the photo. There is a second southwest corner which is right by the dock.

(NH earlier described how he in fact created two SW corners in his posting plan to account for the changes in the land from the rising lake.)

Old wood fence by water was 80 metres east of western boundary of Lot 114.

NH says that he has done about a thousand legal land surveys in his career. He says that there was nothing unusual about this survey. He was able to find good evidence of previous surveys and was able to establish the boundaries under the provisions of the Land Survey Act.

NH identifies the survey paper as being legal and this is marked as an exhibit.

HR - On the southerly part of the lot, HR notes that there is a dotted line. He asks who owns this land when the water recedes. NH says that this is accreted land and the owner can't own this, but can apply to use this. NH says that the dotted line is not a formal boundary. The boundary goes as far as the lake. If the lake goes dry, then you only own as much as allotted.

NH doesn't know what the status is of the roads running through the land. NH agrees that he doesn't deal with title of the land. He agrees that he only files in the land registry office the boundaries of the land. Re: 1887 - HR says that if the title was no good then, then NH's survey doesn't affect that. NH says that his survey doesn't affect the title whatsoever. NH says that he knows who the registered owner is, but doesn't know who the actual owner is. NH assumes that most of the land up there is Crown land. He sometimes surveys Crown land when people want to buy it. NH agrees that the legal statute of boundaries is for someone else to establish - he only finds the boundaries.

If the lake gets smaller, then the land becomes Crown land, except where the boundary is determined by natural features. NH agrees that if there is a dispute over land, then two surveys will be fought over in a court. NH has been in court to do that before. NH agrees that the ownership of the land is none of his business.

HR has finished his cross-examination and as he sits down, Wolverine stands up and says that we have to go back to 1763 to the Royal Proclamation. He says that he asked his lawyer to bring this up, as well as the 1875 Duty of Disallowance. HR tells Wolverine that this can't be established through this witness.

ST - NH agrees that his survey re-establishes about seven different lot lines, including Lot 114. NH agrees that in an urban survey, you simply find the corner posts and make your lines from there. NH agrees that it's more difficult when you have to re-establish posts. NH agrees it takes some training to be able to identify bearing trees. He says that it is a pretty difficult thing to make a boundary without equipment and a crew.

NH agrees that many roads that are built with the intention of marking boundary lines are often incorrect. The same can be said about fences. He says that he generally ignores fences when he does his surveys.

NH says it's not impossible, but very difficult, to make your own survey without sophisticated equipment. ST suggests that a person who only sees the posts and who doesn't have equipment wouldn't be able to see the boundaries with the naked eye. NH agrees. He agrees that without the special knowledge of where the southwest corner is, it would be next to impossible to find the boundaries. ST suggests that if someone in 1989 had wanted to re-establish lines, he could have had a survey done, like what NH had just done.

NH says he spent five days in the field. He agrees that many of the surveys he has done are not with him on site, but done by people under his supervision. He was on site this time because he knew he would be testifying in court. He agrees that he could have done the same in 1989.

When he first went there in Aug. '95, he was only surveying the land for the purpose of the police. In August '96, he did the actual land survey with regard to Lot 114 boundaries. He agrees that his account is paid for by the Crown and that the information gathered now was useful for the people who might have wanted it done in 1989.

GW - NH has been a land surveyor in the 100 Mile House area since 1986. NH has never met Lyle James. NH says that the cost of doing a survey of Lot 114 would cost about $5,000 or $6,000.

In August '95, he was asked by Cst. Tassell to do some work for the RCMP. At that time, he was not asked by any police to survey the boundaries of Lot 114. He knew that the issue of the lake was who owned the land. When he was there in '95, he suggested to a Constable standing next to him to "tie the two posts together" and the Cst. said it was a good idea, but nothing was done about it. NH said he suggested this because this is what he does all the time as a surveyor.

NH says that to do the survey he did this summer, he relied on documents in Victoria. He agrees that historically, a survey was basically done by placing stakes in the ground. NH agrees that before the government of B.C. arrived, this was just land. He agrees that someone filed an application in the past to create Lot 114. GW has old documents brought out that were filed for identification in July. NH looks at them.

NH says he went to the surveyor's general branch in Victoria, but only asked for the field notes of Lot 114. He didn't ask for the grant, which is separate. The old document GW has is dated of 1887. NH says his field notes would say whether the land was previously unsurveyed or not.

L/ J tells jury that they won't be needed on November 12th because of a request by one of the jury members.

GW cont'd with Nigel Hemingway - NH says that field notes are filed the first time a survey is done. He looks at his field notes, which say that on Aug. 18, 1887, a guy name Allen swears he has surveyed accurately. It says on the original notes that 114 is about two miles west from Lot 84 at Neilson Lake. NH never looked for Neilson lake. NH confirms that this is a quarter section (160 acres) of land that is referred to.

GW notes that on the old document, there is a rough sketch with two lakes drawn on. NH says that this rough sketch wouldn't be good enough to make it legal. There is a declaration by Nils Gustafsen dated in 1887. GW asks if NH knows that on July 13, 1945, this lot was questioned by the Assistant Survey General (ASG). GW reads that the boundaries of various lots were "considerably off bearing" from the boundaries of other adjacent lots. It says that one of the boundaries of a lot was misplaced and would affect other boundaries and should be re-adjusted. It says that the south boundary of 114 was off, as was maybe the western boundary. NH says that he never saw that letter.

NH says that "considerably off bearing" could mean a lot. He says that a number of the boundaries on 114 are off a couple of degrees from the north, west, east, south bearings. He agrees that this will affect the boundaries.

He says that in theory, the lines on his document could be off. NH says that he thinks he found the original corners that marked the original lines. NH suggests that the 1945 letter was written because the ASG was unsure of the survey that was done. NH says that he is sure now. GW shows that the document he has is from the same place NH got his information in Victoria. NH doesn't think this is something he overlooked, but is something he didn't look at.

NH agrees that he never investigated the Crown grant documents that GW has shown him, but says that it doesn't affect his survey. On the sketch that GW has from his documents, the southwest corner of the property is on the end of the lake. NH says that, according to the old document, there is a lake at one corner of the property .

NH says that there is a reference to the lake changing when it was flooded. GW asks if in 1965, there was a title of a "Chief Land Inspector". GW has a letter that comes from Clinton, not far from Gustafsen Lake. It says that according to a letter from 1945, it asks if the present reserve should be extended southerly because of flooding of Gustafsen Lake. NH assumes that a land inspector inspects land. NH agrees that, in the letter, there is talk of extending a boundary. NH has never dealt with extending boundaries, but is sure people could apply for it. NH says that he never saw any of these letters or flooding licences.

NH agrees that a "Russell fence" is also known as a "Cariboo fence". The Russell fence that he saw was an old fence. He agrees that wood is preserved longer up north because of the dryness and the cold. He says that during his survey, he saw no old cabins with an age as old as the fence. He did see some corrals outside of Lot 114.

We break quickly for a juror.

GW - NH says he saw some other Russell fences to the west of Lot 114. He reiterates that fences aren't very accurate, but agrees that sometimes back in the 1800s, a man might build a fence between his boundary corners. He saw no Russell fences east of Lot 114. NH says that east of 114 is Crown land. He believes that Lot 5269, south of Lot 114, is Crown land because no one had ever filed a claim for it. He understands that since it's Crown land, anyone can go and camp there.

NH explains that "chains" in survey talk is a measurement of 66 feet of distance. He says that the standard quarter section is 40 chains long. GW has him calculate the distance of the north boundary. NH says that it is 40.02 chains long. NH agrees that it should be exactly 40 long, but these are the distances he got between the posts he found. The western boundary is calculated at 40.07 chains. NH agrees that he used electronic distance measuring machines which are very accurate. Previous to that, they used chains, along with a crew who would drag the chains. GW suggests that by the end of the day, the chains would get pretty heavy. Some laughter in the gallery. NH says that this method was the best at the time.

NH says that he had to dig down two feet to find the bottom of one of the corner posts. He says that the land was pretty natural looking. He couldn't see any post sticking up above the ground. He investigated eight different depressions, which he dug up. In one of them, he found the remains of wood. He says that they went up about 40 chains from the wood remains and then accounted for a two degree error to find the area to look around for the next post. NH says that the area they searched was about 10 yards across.

GW suggests that someone might have moved the post over to one of the other post holes. NH says that this is possible. NH says that photos #8-10 show the various holes he dug up. Photo #9 is of the northeast corner. There were no markings on the wood he recovered.

NH says that he never looked up the existence of Indian reserves in the area. He agrees that Indian reserves are also marked by boundary markers. He says that sometimes, the boundaries are marked with the letters "IR".

NH wasn't aware that there was a dispute by the Canim Lake Band, who was saying that their boundaries extend to 100 Mile House. He is aware that there are disputes in this area over who owns the land.

NH agrees that he can say what he surveyed, but can't say whether an Indian reserve exists in this area.

DC - NH says that he never ran across a document indicating when Lot 114 was ceded from the Shuswap Nation.

LB - Next witness (#64): Cst. Eddie Allan Shortman (ES) - In the RCMP and stationed in Edmonton with the drug section. He was contacted to be involved in the 100 Mile House area. On Sept. 12, he met his undercover man, Cpl. Skippon, and was told he would do an undercover cell operation with one of the people that had come out of the Gustafsen Lake camp. He was put in a cell with Ron Dionne to try to get information from him.

ES said his cover story was that he was picked up on some warrants and that he was waiting for some bail money. He was placed in a cell with a person identified as Ron Dionne. Ron was laying on his bed on two mattresses. Ron wore camo shorts and a white muscle shirt. ES refers to his notes. Describes Ron as 25-27 years old, 160-170 pounds and with tattoos. ES identifies Ron in the courtroom.

After getting into the cell, Ron initiated conversation. Following his operation and when he was removed from cell, he and Cpl. Skippon made notes. He wrote his notes afterwards in a safe house a half hour away. ES agrees it would assist him to read from his notes to assist his memory. The J allows this.

ES reads from his notes at the beginning of the conversation. ES says that Ron said, "you shoot a cop, you get all this attention". Ron said that he never got so much attention before. He hoped that his two brothers who came out yesterday were okay. He said that he was surrounded by police yesterday, handcuffed and flown in a helicopter out of there. He said he had three lawyers and that the media lied about what was happening. He hoped the two girls were okay. ES left the cell and spoke to Cpl. Skippon.

On return to the cell, Ron spoke of a girl named "ShoeShoe". She went for water in a truck which was blown up and she was later picked up. He says that he was the missing man. He had to build a lean-to in the bush to stay warm. He had to stash his gun in the bush and spoke of heat sensors. He said the sound of the carriers sent a chill down his spine. He said the land wasn't for sale and that he travelled around supporting native struggles. He was in Oka. He said the police set up "bogey" traps.

He said that the native kid that was killed in Ontario wasn't armed and said it wasn't right. He almost cried when he heard that and he doesn't usually cry. He motioned with his hands that the battle with M-16s and AK-47s was unreal. ES shows the jury a motion like holding a weapon. He makes the "vmmmm" noise that Ron made describing the sound of the APCs.

Ron said that the police tried to make a boundary, but it was too small. He didn't like the negotiator named Ryan because he kept breaking his promises. Ron kept saying that the police and media were always lying.

ES left cells and spoke to Skippon. He returned to cell and Ron was asleep. ES left again and Skippon told him to take a more active role. ES returned. After midnight, Ron was up. Ron said that there was a girl named Shelagh he had in his tent and a white girl "from Geneva". There was also a man named "Throne" who had taken videos of the battle and the RCMP would like to have those videos.

ES says that Ron said that "they or we" shot warning shots at helicopters and it was legal to fire warning shots. ES told the guard he had stomach cramps and was taken out. He spoke with Skippon.

Though Skippon had told ES to take a more active role, ES says that he didn't and basically continued as he had before. He returned to the cell at 1:46 a.m.

In the morning, a uniformed member came to tell Ron that his lawyer was there. The member and Ron went off. When Ron came back, the guard brought them some coffee and toast. Ron said that he had spoken to his lawyer and had heard that one of the girls had been released. Ron then spoke about the Privy Council. ES says that he told Ron that he hoped he would get $500 from his aunt for bail or for a fine - he can't recall what he said.

Ron said that the cells were bugged and the bugs are usually placed in the beds. ES didn't respond. ES left the cell at 8:48 a.m. and reported to Skippon. He returned at 9:10 a.m. Ron told ES that he was going to remain silent and his lawyer Bruce Clark wasn't going to represent him because he was being disbarred. ES says that he agreed with Ron. Ron said that Clark was a defense lawyer and that he was going over to England. Ron then laid down and went to sleep. ES called the guard and spoke to Skippon. This was the end of the cell block operation. ES guesses that his final stay in cells lasted about 10 minutes. The decision to end the operation was Skippon's.

ES then went to a safe house 30-45 minutes from 100 Mile House. It took him two and a half hours to write his notes. ES says that he never identified himself as a policeman. Ron never questioned him regarding his identity. ES says that Ron seemed upset at times about what was going on. ES says that otherwise, Ron's tone was normal. He didn't notice any change of attitude towards himself by Ron.

ES says that Ron was concerned about the things he was talking about. ES says that there were periods when he was asleep, and when Ron was asleep.

ES says that he wasn't briefed on the nature of the investigation at Gustafsen Lake. ES says that there are times when he isn't briefed on what transpired in an investigation. LB asks if he was briefed on the nature of Ron's arrest. ST objects, but the J rules that this is allowable.

ST complains, but J sternly says that he has already ruled on this. ST: "Yes, my lord." ES says he wasn't briefed on Ron's arrest.

LB asks about comments Ron made about M-16s or AK-47s. ES says he was given no knowledge about these weapons before he entered cells, nor did he know about a police perimeter, nor about a negotiator named Ryan. ES says that Ron's demeanour never changed during his talks with him.

ST - ES on force 12 years. He has been in Edmonton for three years and various other places beforehand. ES says that he joined in the mid-80s as a native officer. He is Cree. He grew up in a small locale in Fort Chippewan, Alberta. ES agrees that there was a measure of distrust between the natives and the RCMP when he grew up, but he says he didn't join to bridge that gap. "I just wanted to be a police officer." He says that he doesn't now, nor ever did, live a traditional lifestyle. ES agrees that in a small town, there are people who might work at a gas station or at a float base, while others get their food and medicine from the bush.

When he went to Gustafsen Lake, he learned about events there from the media. He agrees that there is a camaraderie that develops between police officers. He doesn't recall any press coverage that called the camp occupants "terrorists". He had heard that guns had been fired when he got to Williams Lake.

ES agrees that if it weren't for the paper he had in front of him, he wouldn't remember much of his operation with Ron. He agrees that the notes were compiled from his own notes, as well as notes written by Skippon after ES quickly told him things when he left the cell. ES agrees that he cannot say now which parts of his present statement are made up from his notes and which are made up from Skippon's notes.

ES agrees that he went out of the cell to meet Skippon for maybe five minutes and then return to the cell. After his first exit, he wrote notes himself. After that, his following visits with Skippon were recorded by Skippon. ES agrees that Skippon wrote down what was interesting to the police. After the operation, he went for dinner and then went to the safe house. ES agrees that he compiled his final document from scraps of paper made by himself or Skippon.

ST notes that there are things in the original notes which didn't make it into the final document. ES agrees. ST also says that there are things in the final document which were never in his original notes. ES doesn't believe so, but admits that he never compared the two.

ES agrees that his comments of what Ron said are not verbatim. ES says that he has never worn a wire, but understands that they are still used. He agrees that to record the conversation will leave no doubt in a jury's mind about what a person says. He says he doesn't know why such an important statement was never recorded. ES agrees that had he recorded things verbatim, his document might be three times as long.

ST notes that there is a lot of locker room chitchat, including a reference to a girlfriend named Bob Shelly in Fountain Creek. ST: "You don't think he has a girlfriend named Bob, do you?" ES doesn't know. ST suggests that this is incorrect and in fact, he said that his girlfriend is Shelly, who lived near Bob in Fountain. ES says that he recalled it the other way.

ST finds a section that speaks of "immunity" and suggests that Ron spoke of international law and because ES didn't understand what was being said, he summarized it.

ES agrees that if he had written it down verbatim, it would have been two hours long. ES says that he interpreted it the way he did. ES doesn't remember Ron speaking of the Royal Proclamation or of the Duty of Disallowance, but says he could have.

ES doesn't remember if Ron spoke about the spiritual significance of the Sundance, but admits he might have.

When Ron mentioned that he fasted for 48 hours, ES placed fast in quotes. ES isn't aware of the spiritual significance of fasting. ES says that he can't recall why he put quotations around the word. ES doesn't recall if Ron spoke about the Sundance. ST asks ES if he has any memory of what Ron said other than what he wrote in his notes. "I have memory."

ES agrees that there is very little mention of what he himself said. ES agrees that he wrote "we or they" shot warning shots at a helicopter. ES looks at his rough notes and sees that he initially wrote that Ron said, "we took warning shots." ST points out that ES doesn't even know who wrote the rough notes. ES says that initially, when he left the cell, he wrote rough notes, but as the operation progressed ES began dictating to Skippon, who then wrote the notes. ST asks whose handwriting is on the rough notes. ES says that he's not sure. ST: "You mean to tell me you don't recognize your own writing?" ES says that they are rough and he can't tell. ST asks him if these are his notes or not. ES: "I don't recall." ST asks him again: "Can you not recognize whether these are your own notes or not?" ES: "No, I cannot."

ST asks ES to continue reading his statement from where he stopped when he read it for the Crown.

ES reads. ES was removed from cells and discussed things with Skippon. He returns to cells. A guard comes later and Ron is allowed to talk to his lawyer. Ron comes back and says that one of the girls was released. He speaks of the Privy Council. ES leaves again and returns. Ron says this time that he will remain silent. He says that his lawyer Clark is being disbarred, but is the best lawyer for the job. ES left cells and was pulled from the operation by Skippon.

ES agrees that he went to the safe house and after a sleep, put together his notes. ST suggests that these are Skippon's notes. ES says nothing. ST looks at the notes which didn't make it into the summary that was read to the jury. There is a note that Ron said that the cops have to get better interrogators. ST suggests this refers to the police negotiators, as it was at the same time period that Ron mentioned Ryan. ST suggests that ES was chosen to go in there because of the colour of his skin. ES agrees that between the white operative and the aboriginal, they chose the aboriginal to go in with the aboriginal subject.

ES says that he is 6'3", 245 pounds. He agrees that Ron had no choice of whether or not ES could stay in the cell. He agrees that his whole cover was to portray a person with outstanding warrants. ES agrees that when he was first sent in there, he was supposed to be passive, which means he isn't supposed to solicit any information. ES says that he believes that it probably happens that big people sometimes push around smaller people. ES claims that Ron just began talking about Gustafsen Lake without any introductions.

ST asks ES what he told Ron his name was. ES doesn't want to answer. ST asks if it's because he forgets. ES says that he remembers it, but doesn't want to disclose it as it might jeopardize existing investigations. The J wonders if ST still wants to pursue this line of questioning. ST says he will think about it overnight.

   * Day 68: Monday, November 4         * Day 71: Thursday, November 7
   * Day 69: Tuesday, November 5        * Day 72: Friday, November 8
   * Day 70: Wednesday, November 6