Trial, Week 14: Summary - October 28


WEEK 14: OCTOBER 28 - OCTOBER 31, 1996

   * Day 64: Monday, October 28         * Day 67: Thursday, October 31
   * Day 65: Tuesday, October 29        * Friday, November 1 - no report
   * Day 66: Wednesday, October 30


Edited by Roz Royce and Trond Halle, from notes by Trond Halle (Defendant)

Posted by FreeMedia

MONDAY, OCTOBER 28, 1996 - DAY 64

Abbreviations used in notes:

DC = Don Campbell (Defense)
SF = Shelagh Franklin (Defense)
GW = George Wool (Defense)
ST = Sheldon Tate (Defense)
MA = Manuel Azevedo (Defense)
HR = Harry Rankin (Defense)

LB = Lance Bernard (Crown)
JF = Jennifer Fawcus (Crown)

J = Judge

LB - Says we'll be listening to tapes all day.

Tape Five - Aug. 30: Dennis Ryan (DR) says he wants to talk to Percy (P) or Wolverine (W), but they're not available. Susu (aka Suniva) (S) talks instead. S tells DR that W and P are in ceremony. DR says that the Dick brothers were picked up and are in custody and that Bruce Clark is taking care of them legally. Regarding Clark coming in, DR says that they're still working out the logistics to bring him in. S wonders why there's no problem bringing Madeleine in, but troubles with Clark. DR says that Madeleine is a spiritual person, but S points out that she's not one of the people the camp members have requested. S asks about Splitting the Sky (John Hill) and DR has heard of him, but hasn't gotten any word from him.

DR says that Clark's visit has been approved in principle and they're just working things out. S asks about getting Bill Lightbown in, but DR says that for now, he won't be coming in. DR now starts calling S "ShoeShoe". S asks that DR specify when he's going to call. He says around 9:00 - 10:00 a.m., but adds that he doesn't guarantee that he'll have a plan for bringing Clark in. DR asks if there is anything S wants to ask and she suggests that they back off. He assures her that there's no "seige mentality" going on.

Tape Six - Aug. 31: W angry because Clark wasn't allowed in that morning. DR says that Clark has now been allowed in. W says that Clark should come to the fallen logs. DR assures W that his word is good. W says that Canada will pay. DR reassures W that the Dick brothers have already been released and are home now.

W says that provincial legislation is a fraud and doesn't even apply to the native people. DR says that he understands that W is frustrated. W says that he isn't frustrated, he's just telling DR how the law reads and it has to be upheld. DR promises that Clark will be in this afternoon.

W says that the whole country is corrupt, and the only place they can get justice is from England and that's their only demand. They're not leaving until they hear that their complaints are heard in the Privy Council. DR says that Lyle James and the band council have come up with an agreement. W adds that the band councils are part of the whole corrupt system. DR says that at least there is some progress being made. W says this has nothing to do with what they are seeking.

DR assures W that the Dick brothers are safely at home now. W says that each time DR talks, shit comes out. DR says that there are a lot of issues he can't address now. W says that when the Europeans came, the Indian people opened their cupboards to them. The Europeans ate the cupboards bare and now they want the last few crumbs that are left. DR says that Clark will help address some of these issues.

W says that the laws have been created by corrupt human beings and suggests that DR do some research into Brian Mulroney and the things he did under the NAFTA accord. W says that the police eat out of the same trough and are part of the corrupt system. Only the Privy Council can deal with these issues. DR agrees that this is a civilized way of dealing with things in a court. W says that this is all that they are asking for, but when they do, they are criminalized and stabbed in the back.

W knows how corrupt the system is and if the police make a move on them, then that will push it to the next level. DR assures that the police will make no move on them. W says that the camp will make Canada pay and be accountable for everything it has done. He says that the immigrants act as if they own the country. They forget they're visitors here.

DR claims that not all people are corrupt. W says that he told Mercredi that he had a choice - he could either be a great leader or a big disgrace. W says that he never got paid for standing up for the rights of the people. He has three feathers he earned for the work he has done.

Speaking of Clark coming in, DR wants to ensure that he'll be safe to come in. W reminds DR that Clark is the best there is and they would never hurt him. W says that he's afraid that the same thing will happen as at Oka, where the dead officer was caught in his own people's cross-fire because of the internal corruption he was exposing. DR doesn't know about that, but will call back shortly when Clark is available.

Next call: DR says that Clark will leave the last police checkpoint at 1:00 p.m. and will drive to the camp alone. W wonders if Clark's security will be assured. DR assures him that Clark will be fine. Bruce Clark (BC) gets on the phone and says that he looks forward to seeing W.

(JoJo is asleep, but he must have farted because the sheriffs on each side of him are leaning away from him with smirks on their faces.)

Next call: DR calls in and W says that Clark is now in. DR asks if Percy can talk to someone on the phone. W is reluctant to interrupt Clark's talk, but DR assures him that Clark encouraged the call. P gets on and speaks Shuswap to another male (Dave Belleau), a distant in-law. (JoJo is allowed to leave the courtroom. The sheriffs look relieved as they smile at each other.) W gets on and speaks Shuswap too. It's a long call. The call is ended abruptly.

DR calls back, but a woman tells him that P isn't available now. DR asks if "his brother" can say goodbye to P. Dave Belleau gets on and asks in English if he can say goodbye, but the woman says Percy is busy. DR gets back on and says he understands - they'll call back later.

Tape Seven - Aug. 31: W tells DR that he and BC still have a few matters to discuss. DR wants to speak to BC and BC gets on. BC says he had no trouble getting in and everything is fine. He has nothing to report and would like DR to call back in an hour and a half. DR agrees.

Next call: W lets DR speak to BC. BC says that everything is going quite well and will be leaving in half an hour. BC says that he wants to be met by both the police and the media. He clarifies that he'll be coming out alone. BC says that he wants to report to DR personally, but wants the media to be there to make a public record of that report. BC says that he will be informing DR of certain events that he may not be aware and which BC believes DR will be anxious to investigate. Both agree to meet at the first police checkpoint.

Tape Eight - Sept. 2: DR says that he passed on W's requests to his commander and he's looking into it right now. W says that this is good. DR asks if Mindy can speak to her auntie. W passes the phone to Mindy. She tells DR that she's not cold and her boyfriend is in there too. Auntie Jacqueline (AJ) gets on and says that she would like to see Mindy come out. Mindy says she wants to stay. AJ says that she loves her and is worried about her, as are her other aunts. Mindy says she's getting enough to eat. Auntie Shelly is there with AJ too.

DR gets on with W and says that Shelagh's sister wants to speak to her. Her sister Carolyn (C) gets on. C says that mom and dad are there too. SF is surprised and thinks that this is great. C says that they're worried about her and want to see her and want her to come out. SF says that she can't come out. C says that she can come out if she wants - why can't she? The phone dies while C is asking if SF is there.

MB/ Mobile Negotiator Trailer Tape - Number One - Sept. 2: DR speaks to someone, but you can only hear DR's side of conversation. It kicks in. DR asks if W is holding out. W says that they've been holding out for 176 years. Some radio trouble. W says that no one is interested in coming out yet. DR says that he spoke to Clark, who is now on the way to Ottawa. DR says that Clark handed him a letter yesterday that DR was to pass on to his superiors. DR did so, and then DR faxed BC that his superiors rejected the demand to pass on the letter to the Governor General. DR says that Clark will likely not be happy to hear the news, but he's not sure if Clark heard about it from the media first. DR says he regrets to have to pass on the news from his superiors. W says that the world will eventually hear the truth.

W says that the police and the government refuse to listen to the law that BC told them. DR says that BC is likely considering his next move. DR asks what "we're going to do now." W says that they're not going anywhere and are going to make Canada pay. The world is going to learn about this now and it doesn't matter what happens to them. W says that he wants a phone call from Bruce right to them. DR says that this is something they can discuss.

W says that the police and government have got no power because this is unceded territory. DR asks if he understands that W wants BC to call him. DR asks how the tobacco is holding out that was sent in with BC. W says that it's almost all gone now. W says that the only person that they want in is John Stevens. DR asks about John. W says that he has a direct line to the spirits, but you might not like that because he can read your minds and what is in your hearts, if you have any. Laughter in the gallery.

DR asks what other tobacco they can use. W says that the same amount as before would be good. DR asks about snuff. W says one can. DR asks if that is enough. W: "Okay, two then." Laughter.

DR says that his boss has told him that the police have come in a little closer and says that there is a safety issue involved. He says the people in the camp should stay closer to the camp. W says that the police are going to gun them down, but DR says that won't happen.

Tape Nine - Sept. 3: SF's father wants to talk to SF. While they wait, DR asks how W is doing. W says that he was sneaking around, looking for DR's boys, but didn't find any this time.

SF's father gets on with SF. Father says that the family is worried and would like her to come out. SF suggests that the family could come in. He says that the police won't let them. Father says that mom is leaving tomorrow and would like to see her. SF says she can't come out because she doesn't trust that the RCMP will let her back in. SF says that the RCMP are chomping at the bit for an ambush or a raid. Father says that if she came out, there wouldn't be that worry. SF points out that if the RCMP weren't there, the worry wouldn't be there either.

Father and family wish her a happy birthday. SF suggests that the family could meet on the road and SF and them could talk for a half an hour. Father doesn't think that will happen.

SF says that they are waiting for justice and for the Governor General to open the doors to the Privy Council. She says that it's a simple request and that the phone isn't that heavy. Father doesn't think that this will happen. She says that it should and he should call BC. He says BC is out of the picture regarding negotiations. SF points out that he wasn't in the camp as a negotiator, but as their lawyer.

She says that she's not coming out and all it would take is a one sentence letter to the Governor General. Father doesn't think that will happen. She says that she's standing on truth, which is what he taught her. She says that they're standing on truth, justice and the rule of law. He says that it would be better to deal with this in a court of law. She says that she has tried this, as have others, and they don't see any justice because the Attorney General and the police are part of the corruption.

Father says that they hope for a peaceful resolution. She does too. SF asks if he can look into paying her rent. He says that she is so practical. She gives him the number and he says he'll try. He asks again for her to come out. She says that as soon as that letter is sent, then she'll come out. She asks that he also contact his friends and try to apply pressure for this to get done. They send each other love.

Mobile Negotiator Trailer Tape - Number Two - Sept. 3: W says that the camp is enjoying things. Tourists and Americans spend millions coming up here, so they're just enjoying it too. DR asks how the food is and W says that it's low, but they'll forage for food if they have too. DR says that the radio seems pretty rough, so maybe they should change batteries. W suggests sending in better equipment. DR asks how the frost is and W says that some part of his body froze and it's just standing stiff. Laughter.

DR says that his boss won't allow BC to call in, but there might be some room on the tobacco. DR says his boss asks what W will do for the tobacco. W says they sure as hell aren't going to get on their knees. Laughter. DR asks how they can break this stalemate. W says that they will never find justice in this land. W suggests that DR go back to school and learn some history, so they can apply the law as it is written.

DR says that they are trying to track down John Stevens and asks what John means to him. W says that he means more to them than the Attorney General.

DR suggests that John is important to their movement. W says that it isn't a movement, it's something that has been going on long before you people got here.

DR asks if W has been hearing the news that BC has been giving the media. W hasn't. DR says that he's getting the camp position out very eloquently. W says that the media should stick to the law to report what's really going on here. W points out that the police are upholding provincial legislations which are not law. If Canada doesn't uphold its own laws, then the Queen is going to be put on notice.

W says that BC is the only Canadian lawyer willing to argue this position. DR tries to understand and puts it that England and Canada have to make an agreement, but W says that Canada doesn't even come into this. Canada isn't even a country because it doesn't have a Constitution of its own.

W says that he hopes the police aren't getting itchy fingers and are planning to come in here. DR says that he has some safety concerns, "like that business of last evening" and thinks people should tighten up a little bit into the camp and be a little more careful when they're out. DR: "I don't want an incident to take place and we certainly don't want any loss of life." W: "We're not going over to Europe and try to tell you how to live ... so I don't think you assholes got to tell us how to live here in our own homeland and when we use law, you people try to criminalize us." DR says that the perimeter is closing in and his boss has ordered that.

DR says that last night, one of the camp boys set off a warning device and he wants them to be careful. W says that if the police are going to set up explosives, then so will they.

DR says that they took the Suburban out of the crime scene and are having it analyzed. W says that he doesn't know about any crime scenes. The only crime he's aware of is of them trespassing on their own land.

W says that if the police try to ambush their boys getting water, then that will really get things started. DR wants to know where the camp has to go for water. W says that he has seen the helicopters dropping police off near the cow camp three times. He also says they need to get wood because they plan on being there all winter. W goes on to say that Lyle James doesn't even own the land and asks why the media call them squatters. DR says that the media report what they see or what they want and the police don't control their agendas.

DR asks what food they need. The cook gets on to say they need canned food, vegetables, peanut butter, jam, juice, etc. DR calls her "cookie".

L/ Sept. 3 call cont'd: DR wants to know what he can tell his boss W will give in return. W says not a damn thing - when the word gets to the Privy Council, "then we'll find out who the real squatters are here." DR asks if W will abide by the Privy Council's decision if they uphold the law the way it is now in Canada. W asks how they could do this if they abide by the rule of law. DR asks if he could live with another decision. W says that he wouldn't abide by that decision and wonders how they could live in a place where "our people are deprived of everything on our own land."

"All aboriginal people are suffering under the hands of colonization." DR asks what W would feel if the Queen would agree with some of their requests and not with others. W asks how this could possibly be if the Crown's commitment is to protect the native people. W goes over the different places he has taken the argument - the U.N., The Hague, etc. and he wonders where are natives going to get justice.

W says that the Supreme Court judges are controlled by multi-national corporations, so how could they ever rule in favour of the Indian people. He says that this has been going on too long and Canada has to pay. The police are nothing but goons. DR says that he and Clark have a strong position and asks if it wouldn't be better to be heard in court.

DR asks where the firewood trail is, but W says he doesn't want to say because the police will be waiting for them in ambush. DR says he enjoyed talking to W and "found this very enlightening" and W says that they've been enjoying themselves "just like summer camp."

Tape Ten - Sept. 4: DR says that he has Ken Dennis, Mr. Lawrence Michel, Tom Dennis, Mike Arnouse, and some others with him. Michel speaks to W in Shuswap. W says in English that money isn't the issue - the law is and that's why they're waiting for Bruce. Michel continues in Shuswap and W also speaks his language. W says the names John Stevens and Harvey Whitehawk. W: "All we want to do is address the law, but look what the hell it got us. RCMP is so goddamn fucked up in the head, they don't even know what the hell law is." More Shuswap.

As the tape is changed, the J notes that he's not sure if the tape is from Sept. 3rd or 4th. LB will clarify this later.

Mobile Negotiator Trailer Tape - Number Three - Sept. 7: Sean Wylie (SW) calls now looking for W. He is the new negotiator. A male asks where DR went. SW says that DR had to go away for a few days. W comes on and SW asks if Trond is there. Trond gets on and says that things are fine. W gets on and says that some of the things that have been going on are bullshit. W says that the news said that they were involved in a shootout with the cops and that was all bullshit. SW claims that the police have no control over what the media say. W says that they're waiting for BC, but SW says that BC wasn't very productive.

W says that there were no people from the camp at the road that night, but the news said that they were involved in a gunfight. SW says that the police have the opportunity to come in and they have held back. W is angry because the immigrants are coming in and telling the natives what to do in their own country. SW says that they let BC come in to try to address their concerns, but he wasn't very helpful.

SW says that he's trying to find a peaceful solution and asks that the camp people stay in close to the camp. W says that here SW is saying that he doesn't run the show and yet he's trying to tell them what to do in their own homeland. W says that if the government doesn't deal with this, then the whole country will blow. SW asks if the camp can put down their weapons so the police can come in and talk about this. W says that as soon as this goes to the Privy Council, then we have a chance to have the law addressed.

SW wants negotiations to continue and W asks, "How do you negotiate freedom?" SW says that they are free to go anywhere they want in this country. W asks then why the police are telling them where to go on their own homeland. W says that this is the first time that he has heard of a Klansman taking an order from a minority.

SW says that they want to reduce the violence and tensions there. W says that the only violent ones there are the police who are trying to escalate things.

SW asks to talk to Trond or someone else there, but W says that they only speak with him because they put him as the leader of this "hold-out crew here", and the only person that's going to come in here to see them is John Stevens. SW says they tried to talk to John and he's busy now. W says they'll also speak to Harvey Whitehawk. SW asks where they'll be if they let Harvey in - "you're still in the camp, we're outside here and we're not going to be any further to resolve this issue." SW says that "you people appear to be increasing your level of aggression" and he's afraid it will end up with someone getting hurt.

W reminds SW that they don't have jurisdiction here. He says that maybe SW just doesn't want to hear about pure law. "When we talk about law, you want to talk about something else." SW wants to talk to someone else, but W says that he can talk to him. SW says that they must need food. W lists some of the food they can send in. SW asks how many people they need food for. W says that they should know from their surveillance, but they can send food for thirty. SW says that he was disappointed that the Adams Lake delegation wasn't allowed in, but this is because of the shooting going on. W says that it looks like they'll just have to be packed out in body bags because that's what the police want anyhow. SW denies that this is what they want.

SW says that the media are not understanding why they are in there, so W asks him why he just doesn't tell them that they are standing on law. "Are you afraid that you may lose the good life here in Canada?"

W doesn't know how Lyle James can own so much land when it was never legally sold from the Indians.

SW wonders if there is someone inside the camp that is deliberately trying to keep the delegation from coming in. W doesn't hear this. SW says that people are afraid to come in to the camp. W says that the Indians are being pushed against the wall and you're still pushing.

SW keeps trying to talk about ending the standoff and W keeps talking about addressing the law. SW asks if he can talk to Trond. W says that Trond is busy recording this so the world will see what is going on here. SW is happy to hear that Trond is recording this because "we want an accurate record of what's happening here" since the world is getting the story that the people in the camp are the aggressors. W says that the only aggressors are the police.

SW wants to talk about what happened the other night. He says that his people are travelling back and forth and if they are fired on, who else would they think fired? W says that he has no idea who fired because they were all in the camp. SW wants to know about the firing at the helicopters and at the Suburbans. W asks who shot first. SW says these are the kinds of things that will happen.

Another male gets on and says that the cops have turned off the communications and now they're setting them up. He says that he did a head count of the people in the camp himself. Silence. SW asks a couple of times if there is someone there. Silence.

J gathers that there are a number of long pauses coming up and asks if Counsel could get together to decide if they have to be played.

AB/ Before the jury comes in, Wolverine is smiling at HR. W: "Looks like I've made the case for you." HR: "You left them no doubt about your position."

Jury in. Crown is going to proceed to the next tape.

Tape Eleven - Sept. 8: SW is now calling W, "Jonesy". SW asks if he can speak to Percy because there's someone to speak to him. SW says it's Percy's brother, Dave Belleau (DB). P gets on with DB. They speak Shuswap to each other. A Shuswap defendant, Pancho, translates for Trond that Percy is telling Dave that the RCMP are trying to push them around. SW gets on and tells P that Dave and his group are going to leave now and SW will call back in an hour to talk to Dave. Call ends.

Next call: DR asks to speak to DB, who is now in the camp. P gets on the phone and asks DR, "What happened to spiritual freedom?". DR speaks to DB and wants to make sure everything is fine in the camp. DB says that they're in a ceremony now and DR says that he will call back at 3:00 p.m.

There are numerous attempts to get through to the camp. The J asks that they move on to tape 12.

Next call after several attempts: DR asks if DB is there, but P says that DB just left. Four people in total left. DR says he'll call back tomorrow.

LB says that they're going to tape 14 now because JF has tape 12 and 13.

Tape Fourteen - Sept. 11: DR speaks to a male called Black. DR says that his commander says that they will pull back and will arrange to get Marlowe Sam in. Black says that they're going out to look for some of their people. DR asks the camp to stop shooting and to draw back into the camp. Black asks if there are any police hurt. DR doesn't know.

Next call: Marlowe Sam (MS) gets on the phone. Black (B) says that an unarmed woman was badly hurt. B says that they can use some help. A truck was blown up with two people in it. B says he wants Scotty Holmes and the Krugers contacted. B says that there are people missing and the police better back up. MS says he thinks that this has already happened. B asks MS to tell Bruce Clark that a truck was blown up and a woman was badly shot.

MS says that he was trying to do everything to get a peaceful resolution. B says that the truck only went up there to pick up the negotiators. MS says that there were four people at the log when the explosion and the firing began. MS says that they had people in jeopardy too. B says that they're the ones that were in jeopardy.

MS asks what can be done now. B says that the letter to the Privy Council has to go through to England. The radio begins to break up.

Next call: DR says MS would like to talk to P. P tells MS that the police blew up one of their trucks going for water and they shot an unarmed woman. MS asks if they can get the woman out. P says that they're afraid of a trap. MS asks if anyone wants to come out. P says no. P says that the police should pull their people back.

B gets back on. MS says that they told the police to pull back, but there's nothing they can do. MS says that calls have gone out everywhere. MS asks if the shot woman would come out if they could guarantee her safe passage. The radio begins to break up again.

Next call: MS gets back on with B. MS says that he's coming in alone. MS just wants to let them know he's coming in. MS says he's going to drive up to the log barricade in a van. B hopes that the police don't shoot him. MS says he's expendable, he's been around. B wonders if he can bring anything in, but MS says he can't.

Next call: DR calls in to let the camp know that MS will be driving into the camp area alone. B asks if the police have moved back and DR says he believes so. DR wants to ensure MS's safety. B asks, "What about our safety?" and DR replies, "Yes, your safety is assured. You're important to us as well." B says that they'll have to answer to the international community.

Next call: DR asks for MS. B says that MS just left and he has a couple of people with him. DR says that they'll be safe if they stay within the encampment. B wonder if there's a sniper outside and DR replies, "No, you're very safe in the encampment. You have my word." Regarding the earlier incident of the day, DR says that the people had left the safe zone. B says that the people were going for water where they always go when they were blown up. DR says that SF's parents called up and were wondering if she's okay. B says she is.

DR asks if anyone else is hurt. B says that a man named Paintball from Victoria is missing. DR says that he hopes the man is okay and prays that he walks back into the camp tonight. B identifies himself as "Black". B hopes that the camp isn't attacked in the night. DR assures him that if the people stay in the camp, they'll be safe. DR asks about the shot woman. B says she's critical, but tough. She's not coming out. DR says good night.

Next call - Sept. 12: DR speaks to B and B says that a person from the camp was shot at this morning from someone across the lake. DR asks if he's alright and B says that he is, but it was pretty close. B says that the hurt girl is fine. DR says that Marlowe came out safely yesterday with the two people from the camp. DR guarantees that anyone wanting to come out unarmed will be safe. B asks about the shooting from across the lake and DR says he doesn't know anything about that.

DR says that the people shouldn't leave the camp armed because it's too dangerous. B says that Paintball is still missing and it looks like he got it. He says that Paintball is a Mohawk from Kahnawake. DR says that the two people that came out yesterday are being held, but haven't been charged yet. He says that as long as MS's visits are productive, the commanders will continue to allow him in.

DR says that the people are to stay in the camp and not come out armed. It won't be safe. B says that they want to go out and look for Paintball. DR says that that wouldn't be safe to do. B isn't concerned about his safety, only about how Paintball is doing.

DR says that the Shuswap people have put together a legal team that will "look after the needs of the people that come out of the camp." B says that he wants Bruce Clark to come, but DR says he's not worried about BC right now. B says that he's concerned about Paintball being out there bleeding to death. DR says that MS will be allowed to keep coming in "as long as things remain productive." B: "What the hell does that mean?" DR says that if people come out, then they can address their missing friend. B says that if the police keep coming in, they will engage them. B says that the earlier news of the camp engaging the police was a lie. DR says that the camp will have the media's ear when they come out, so they can straighten out the record then.

Next call: DR tells B that the explosive bang they heard earlier was one of their people that set something off and injured himself. MS gets on and asks if the camp wants him to come in. B says yes. MS says he'll stop in the field so they can see him. B asks him to honk his horn too. MS agrees.

Next call: DR asks for MS, who is in the camp now. DR asks how things are. MS says that he hasn't even had a chance to discuss things yet. DR asks how many people are coming out. MS says he needs more time. They agree to call back at 4:00 p.m.

Next call: MS, now out of the camp, asks to speak with B. MS says that the girls made it in and are being booked. MS says he has good news - the missing man was found and is now in custody. B says that this is good. MS says that the girls had a rough ride coming in because the cruiser got hit doing a U-turn, but the girls just laughed about it. They're okay.

MS says that everyone is happy to learn that the missing person was found because it took a lot of pressure off. MS says that he'll be coming in tomorrow. Good night.

   * Day 64: Monday, October 28         * Day 67: Thursday, October 31
   * Day 65: Tuesday, October 29        * Friday, November 1 - no report
   * Day 66: Wednesday, October 30