Trial, Week 4: Summary - August 15


WEEK 4: AUGUST 12 - 16, 1996

   * Day 10: Monday, August 12                * Day 13: Thursday, August 15
   * Day 11: Tuesday, August 13               * Day 14: Friday, August 16 
   * Day 12: Wednesday, August 14


Edited by Roz Royce and Trond Halle, from notes by Trond Halle (Defendant)

Posted by FreeMedia

THURSDAY, AUGUST 15, 1996 - DAY 18

Abbreviations used in notes:

DC = Don Campbell (Defense)
SF = Shelagh Franklin (Defense)
GW = George Wool (Defense)
ST = Sheldon Tate (Defense)
MA = Manuel Azevedo (Defense)
HR = Harry Rankin (Defense)

LB = Lance Bernard (Crown)
JF = Jennifer Fawcus (Crown)

J = Judge

Early start. GW seeks order for medical doctor to examine JoJo in Surrey pre-trial for a head injury. Says there was some incident during the standoff where he was shot at by police and then after arrest, when he was manhandled by sheriffs and got a hit in the head. Similarly, JoJo was knocked unconscious in a bar. Later again he returned with injuries and hurt ribs. JoJo says he has severe headaches and can't sleep. Doesn't want psychiatric test. Wants medical examination. That would be a first step. J would rather make recommendation to sheriffs. LB fine with that if a hearing for bail can be heard at a later date.

SF - wants to know status of transcripts and being indigent. Also wants her rights waived to be there in future if she is late.

J notes absence of OJ, Shadow and Pancho and reminds Madam Registrar to dock their pay.

GW asks JoJo to get first aid since he's in pain. First aid summoned to court. They stand down.

Later, GW informs J that JoJo has gone to pre- trial for examination.

LB - notes that JoJo doesn't have a choice. J says like someone whose car has broken down, it's not their choice and they can waive right for a portion of the trial.

Jury in, Sarich back on stand.

HR - Re: arrest of 2 at Williams Lake. Sarich denies following the case closely. Didn't know David Pena got 4 months and Ernie Archie got stay of proceedings. Says Ernie was present at camp and his officers may have met him. Says he isn't aware of Ernie gaining intelligence for police. Kamloops set up checkpoints as per plan. Says their input into plan limited only to beginning. Sarich shown operational plan - admits it was created under his direction through Bigland. He sent it to Kamloops through Porter. Not aware of ever giving it to Crown Counsel to check it out. Does admit submitting it to authorities to check legalities and points of law. On page 1, there is reference to explosives disposal unit. Says this unit was only to dispose of explosives - not to blow up trucks. 17AlphaA1 reference is personnel unmarked Suburban. Alpha2 is a marked Suburban with lights. Air4 from Kamloops with 2 spotters is helicopter, based out of Kamloops. Spotters fly with pilot to spot. Page 2, "Phase 1" - How natives are organized. Phase 2 - they have arrested all sentries in bunkers outside camp. PSD is police service dog unit. At least 3 groups used to invade camp. 2-7 men teams to effect arrest. "I would take it this witness is articulate if not long winded person." Snicker from jury. Harry then forgot question getting a good laugh. Sarich said that they thought 7 people were in camp. Recce and Electric Eye would let them know how many. Took consideration for woman prisoners and children. Sarich claims this plan was not cast in stone. Plan notes it is based on 5 people in camp and no more out patrolling. Sarich says final say comes from ERT level. Looking at map. Routes for vehicles include from along lake shore, around back, there were 2 routes. Another from East. From South and a number of trails. Agrees that there are a half- dozen ways to get vehicle. Endless amounts of ways to get in on foot. Within a day, you could hit a major road on foot. Admits plan dealt mostly with containing vehicles.

Admits they could control campers in vehicles if they are cooperative. "Most of the population is compliant." Spoke to Lyle James a number of times. Until trespass notice was served, Sarich's position was for James to get civil order before the police would get involved. Sarich noted discussion with Phil Mayfield (reform MP) on 27 July 95. James made a few visits to office. Dealings with Mayfield and Crown was on phone. Aug. 12th note to go in and arrest people without word to anyone.

Sarich explains that because events were beyond their control, things weren't working in an informal way - at that point, he felt it was time to move in. He opposed media briefing because it would create stage and would allow camp to prepare and resist. He claims he wasn't planning to go in immediately. HR says OC against plan and won. Next day, OC changed mind. Sarich claims this note was a summary. On 18 Aug., Sarich claims ERT probe wasn't there to arrest. Says that morning, there was an incident and the mission was compromised.

On Aug. 21, said to McLauglin that land was deeded and people were trespassing. Believed that Pena, Percy, Hill, Jones, OJ, Franklin, were there. Advised McLauglin of code violations they considered to use against camp. When asked why he didn't just issue warrants for people's arrests, Sarich says it wouldn't have changed their approach. Says he had justification for arrests without needing a warrant. HR suggests that camp was never told they were breaking law. Sarich sure camp knew police position and warrant wouldn't have made a difference. Denies they didn't have enough information to get warrants.

Sarich had discussions with people connected with government like Wendy McFee, assistant in office of MLA Zirnhelt. Paul Korns, info liaison with AG or Premier's office. Alway in Aboriginal Affairs. Korns was in 100 Mile House during standoff. Was communications link for his office. Korns called for an update. Feb. '95, Sarich received letter from Ladner Downs, thanking him for meeting. Ladner Downs agreed with Sarich's advice that Lyle James would have to get injunction and enforcement order before police would act to remove trespassers. Sarich said his notes indicate that when he spoke to Ladner Downs this wasn't his only advice. Won't admit that civil injunction route was his only advice. He never returned call that letter was incorrect. On Feb. '95 occurrence sheet next to Ladner Downs letter. Says he told Januszczak that if RCMP were to go in, they would likely lose case and send wrong message to camp. Sarich stands by this.

MB/ HR cont. - Feb. 15th notes speaking to Januszczak. Noted that civil route had almost 100% success rate. Feb. 2nd, spoke more. On Feb. 6th, noted that there was man and woman squatting on land. Januszczak said this fell under larger land claims than individual land claims. Feb. 6th, Sarich reluctant to go criminal route. Says he remained neutral throughout. Feb. 15th, Boris Tyzuk spoken to from AG's office agreed with civil route. Tyzuk said natives had certain rights if they were from area. At that time, Sarich said civil way was preferred way to go. Sarich said that the actions from the camp were changing things. Claims that from outset, he felt position of camp was incorrect. Believed it was private deeded land. Says he concluded that natives were in the wrong from the start. Confirms his sworn duty is to enforce and uphold criminal code - not civil law. Confirms that he only acts when he has criminal evidence to act. Finally agrees that he acts on criminal evidence, not personal opinion.

LB - asks plan to be made exhibit.

ST - Admits he doesn't advise superiors until he requires advisory role. First time Kamloops was told of events was through Tassell re: Forestry Personnel and eviction notice. Was also discussing matter with Staff Sgt. Porter and others at Kamloops in passing in Feb. and March. Clarifies that until superiors officially contacted, he was in total control of operation. Admits that most of his service was in urban areas. 20,000 people in area, but Canim Lake has only 400 natives. Total area of control is 2,000 km??

Only inhabitants up there are business (cattle camps) and recreational. At time, only persons living there were Percy, Toby and possibly David. Admits that no residences there except for one house across lake which wasn't occupied. Says sometimes in community that size, he does handle complaints directly. Area based on mining, forestry and tourism. Some people would apply term rednecks to some people there. Generally, they haven't had many demonstrations there. Admits he was trying to maintain neutrality. First impression was that there was a dispute there and most appropriate way to deal with it was by civil route. On Feb. 2/95, he shared with Januszczak felt people there were there unlawfully. Contemplated sections 430 of criminal code and if Lyle James used force, would have applied assault by trespass section 42 or so. ST points out that in section 42, assumed that persons trespassing don't have a claim. Sarich reads through criminal code to check section. ST asks Sarich to take time to find sections and J asks if a debate on law is necessary. ST explains to J that witness has yet to explain why his direction changed from first impressions to later actions. Did he believe criminal acts were happening? Wants to know how a lawyer's advice led to assault by trespass. J wants to think about it and hear from Crown.

L/ ST cont. - Sarich said assault by trespass was considered. He never checked with Crown. ST suggests that there is no assault by trespass. Clarifies that it's under assault laws. Sarich explains that Lyle James is legal owner and he never gave Percy permission to live on his property. Section 41, subsections 1 and 2 were referred to. Says that James could use force to evict someone as owner of property. He would rely on subsection 2 if there was resistance. Admits that at this point, he had only spoken to lawyer representing a client. Also received information from reports but can't remember if he got it before or after Januszczak's call. Agrees he must have facts before acting. Agrees that prior to this call, he never coordinated files together of prior incidents - file 3 inches thick or so. File eventually grew to huge file. Can't remember if he had read files before or after Januszczak's call on Feb. 2nd. Admits that he didn't have the grounds prior to call to proceed with criminal charges. That changed June 13/95 when he was informed of trespass notice serving and camp refused to leave. Won't admit that he has no role until charges laid. Says he has peacekeeping duties. Maintains that criminal approach existed if James met resistance serving trespass notice. Admits that if a complaint is made, he wouldn't go ahead and just lay charges. Prior to Januszczak's call, he hadn't received any complaints. Januszczak's call was only to inform police of possible options. Says he wouldn't have done anything until speaking to James himself. Sarich admits he would want assurance of ownership before acting but says he was satisfied with James' assurance. Can't remember if he saw deed. Stand down until he can check if he did see deed.

AB/ ST cont'd. - Requested deed on 26 July from Helen James; Aug. 3rd he asked Messner for copy. Around 22 Aug., he asked for clear copy to send in with McLauglin later on Aug. 26th.

Couldn't ID Lot 114 on large aerial picture in courtroom. Disregarding James' info, Lot 114 could be anywhere in BC. Agrees that he went completely on James' word. Says later before acting, he would want more proof. During discussion with Januszczak's call, he was providing advice on criminal investigations as well as civil advice. Figured appropriate time to confirm title was in July. As early as Feb. or March '95, he didn't have anything contrary to doubt James or lawyer's claims. James assured Sarich that camp was not on boundary of property. He didn't walk the survey lines or walk the corners.

He saw forestry maps and maps with lot numbers on them but not survey map. He assumed fenceline was eastern boundary of Lot 114, but believed actual boundary extended further east than the fence. Assumption that civil was best way to go assisted by Mr. Tyzuk, an expert on civil matters. Did give him insight on land claims. Understood that any claims would come from Agnes Snow and her people with the government. Established this with discussions with Snow and Mr. Tyzuk. He favoured James' position of taking land back with force. He says that the best way for James to serve an injunction was without police presence. When suggested that he wasn't neutral, and in fact sided with James, he disagrees. All documents had nothing to do with Rosette. Sarich figured that would have been done in past two or three years. Before authorizing a civilian to use force on another civilian, Sarich figured James was being truthful. When asked for incidents that have anything to do with Rosette prior to Feb. '95, he cited events around the sundance ceremonies to which Percy was involved. '92 incident ended in 2 white persons being questioned and no convictions secured. Sarich claims information shows that incident was connected to ceremonies. He cannot name a single incident that directly or indirectly touched Rosette prior to '95. Knew Rosette claimed land for spiritual purposes and that he claimed land was sacred. He understood land was to be settled by BC land claims. Understood that bands didn't support camp. Tyzuk said that though natives may have fundamental rights to land, they don't have right to squat on land for 3 or 4 years. Admits that this has to be done through the courts. He felt those making land claims should make claims when they are off the land. Says Chief Archie was doing a fine job of making treaties. Says his native officers' views of land claims was their opinion. Saw Findley on news speaking of report going to superiors, but Sarich denies this was used for an investigation - just to be used for future negotiations.

In latter part of June, Sarich made suggestion to Lyle James to switch to local counsel. Claims it would be easier to have local counsel to explain different options. On 6th Feb., Sarich learns of larger claims to area. Januszczak told him this. Agrees that land claim isn't a police issue, but people on the land is. When Januszczak said he would look into other avenues, Sarich notes that he didn't want to get involved in land claim issues. Admits that he was aware of broader political issue in rest of country and BC year before. In early stages, Kamloops felt it was a local issue and that's how he should act on it. Doesn't want to say it was a hot potato in early stages, only after eviction notice was served. Admits that a written request to leave was one approach on how to get civil injunction route going. 15th Feb. note that Tyzuk tells him that if James did serve notice, he would look at it and give advice. ST shows Sarich Exhibit 96A (trespass notice), but can't remember seeing that date on it. Thought it was in pen. Shown Exhibit 96, he recalls date but thought it was different with line through it.

On 13th June, he heard that an eviction notice was served. To get an injunction was an option but because it was 2 weeks before ceremony and people were already arriving. He also didn't know how much support camp would get. Had hoped to convince group to cancel or move the ceremony. Says he changed tack when he heard about notice serving. Now he wondered if it was prudent to enforce an injunction order. Agreed that it would have been easier to do this when he made suggestion to James in Feb. Didn't act because James or Messner never forwarded anything to him.. Had meeting with Messner, James and sons in July '95 to discuss options. Met with James on June 20(?). On 23 March, he told Januszczak that they would just take observation role and see what happened. In June, James did go to serve this eviction notice and Cpl. Hicks ordered police action to keep the peace. When he heard of aspects of the notice serving, he was concerned and spoke to James to ensure his employees acted appropriately. Believed James when he told him door and stove was his because he had no news to contradict that. Had stove and door belonged to Rosette, he would have considered it a theft but Sarich said there was no complaint. Didn't concern him that eviction notice deadline was six hours earlier than time it was served unless a civil injunction was being pursued.

Admits that he has no evidence to link accused with alleged incident on June 14/95. Admits that person shot at caused problems because he went to media, that the police didn't want to lay charges because the police wanted to maintain a low profile. Sarich only wanted Gustafsen Lake kept in low profile. Agrees that all information Sarich had was hearsay from Ernie Archie. Told Williams Lake to hold Archie. Sent someone to interview him but can't remember if it was Tassell or not. Agrees this incident on Fraser River was watershed development. Many incidents led to camp being fingered.

Admits there were some politically motivated pressures but he resisted those. Admits many people called in telling police to move those people out of there. Ministry of Indian Affairs weren't pushing for action. Pat Corbett said this was driving tourists away. MLA Phil Mayfield call was not unusual. Admits Mayfield was on James' side and wanted action. Sarich told him he wouldn't be pressured. Mayfield warned there would be cameras rolling and Sarich told him he wouldn't be politically pressured. As result, issue was raised in BC legislature by member wanting one law for all. There was report in paper that Sarich was only too aware of this. He made it clear that police wasn't soft peddling it, they simply didn't have evidence to press charges, as they don't now. Sarich thought it was irresponsible reporting because police were trying to keep it low profile. Despite lack of evidence, he couldn't forget incident.

Difference between Feb. and June was that in Feb., there were only 3 people. On 13th June, James attempts to serve notice, on 14th, forestry incident. James now complaining that he fears for cowboys and it was in Sarich's mind, his lawful use of the land was being interfered with. Later, James moved cattle without incident. James concerned that he wouldn't be able to get resources into area because of fence going up. 19th June report of new fence was considered. Sarich didn't know who put fence up. Went there on 22nd June to investigate. 1st question was whether there was enough impact to warrant police action. Over time, decided that it did have impact. He relied largely on information from Lyle James. On 20th June, James told him that Dog Creek was going to support him.

Sarich told James that eviction would still have to be done properly with injunction at right time. Re: peaceful resolution, admits James never tried to get a court order. All James did was get support of bands. If he claimed they were negotiating, Sarich must have known that Rosette wouldn't agree to move from spiritual ground "And land doesn't move." Thought getting Queen was impractical, but admits Queen is represented by courts. Tate suggested that Sarich should have brought the two stubborn coconuts to court and had it resolved there.

* Day 10: Monday, August 12 * Day 
13: Thursday, August 15 * Day 11: Tuesday, 
August 13 * Day 14: Friday, August 16 * 
Day 12: Wednesday, August 14